We both spend a lot of time talking about how best to interact with our church family. The environment can be a bit trying at times, but we stumbled into one particular parish as our home parish and have decided (after much discussion!) to remain there. We’re grateful for the handful of people who go out of their way to make us feel welcome. However, we often wish we could share our experiences a bit more openly and freely in this setting. We hope that, one day, we will be able to do this, but we’re not there yet. To lay out a road map of where we’d like to be able to go, we present “10 Things We Wish Our Church Family Knew.”
1. We are aware of the Church’s teachings on marriage and sexuality, and we don’t need a constant reminder.
Straight people in the Church are constantly trying to tell LGBT people what the Church teaches or what the Bible says. As such, every LGBT person in the Church has heard the official line multiple times from multiple people. It can be really off-putting when a person finds out we’re LGBT and suddenly acts like we’ve never read Romans 1. We’re grateful to be in a tradition that bears witness to the Truth through Word and Sacrament. We believe that every member of our faith community has something to show us about what is true and holy, but there are effective and ineffective ways of serving as a teacher. Inviting us to share in your family celebrations–whether it is your wedding, your child’s baptism, or your mother’s funeral–is much more effective than proof-texting and quoting official Church documents as a way of showing us what it means to be a family within the Church. It also shows that you respect us enough to include us in your family’s big moments.
2. Insults to sexually active LGBT people are also insults to us.
Our vocation to celibacy does not make us immune to discrimination. When you suggest that you cannot support non-discrimination policies because these policies might condone same-sex sexual activity, what you’re really saying to us is that you don’t think we should be able to secure housing or enjoy a workplace free of harassment. We do not appreciate hearing your disdain for organizations that permit LGBT people to participate, especially if the participation of LGBT people is your only objection to a particular group. How do you expect us to know that we are welcome in the Church when you indicate that we certainly would not be welcome in another social context? During times of fellowship, it is incredibly hard to overhear comments that suggest LGBT people are on the same level as animals or are a threat to civilization as we know it. Those kinds of comments lack any degree of Christian charity and make it hard for us to gather the strength to come to church the following week. We also abhor the idea that there is somehow a “good” LGBT person and a “bad” LGBT person. The practice of celibacy does not make us spiritually, morally, or (insert your favorite adverb here) superior to other LGBT people. At the foot of the Cross, we are all radically equal. And we are all human.
3. Our being LGBT is not the cause of personal struggles we face.
Just like other human beings, we face short-term and long-term personal struggles. Between the two of us, we’ve dealt with depression, chronic health conditions, debt, addiction, an eating disorder, job loss, PTSD, and more. Often, we feel like we have to keep up a strong exterior because we’re afraid that straight people in the Church will attribute any personal struggle we experience to our LGBT status. It’s part of the legacy of reparative therapy: well-meaning Christian counselors sought to uncover the root cause of homosexuality in order to repair the damage. We’re not damaged; we’re human. And when we’re really honest, we know that some of you have likely navigated similar problems and can be ashamed to share your own vulnerabilities within the church community.
4. It’s okay to ask us questions.
As much as we hear negative comments about LGBT issues, we have never been able to have an honest, open conversation about our lives with Church members. We have never tried to hide anything from you, but it seems like some of you are more comfortable with avoiding the questions. Lindsey once had a friend say, “If you want to get to know me, make friends with the question mark.” Consider asking us more questions about our travels (especially when we’ve just gotten back in town), about what we do for fun, or about how we are learning to pray together. Talk with us about the experience of the service that day: How did you encounter Christ in the service? What are you taking away from today’s time of worship? How can we be praying for you throughout the week? Questions are the stuff relationships are made of, and we could probably do better at modeling how to ask questions by asking you these questions ourselves.
5. Your families inspire us in our vocation.
Being in the unique situation of a celibate partnership, we learn about vocation not only from celibate monastics, but also from families. The way you approach living life as a family is profoundly meaningful to us. It is meaningful for us when you encourage your children to serve within the parish, when you bring your children into the services, and when you allow them to stay present within the people of God even when their behavior isn’t the best. It is inspiring for us to see your children grow and to have your children tug at our shirts to tell us a story. Watching you as parents love your kids before, during, and after our times of worship shows us a great deal about how Christ loves His Church. We pray for you and your family constantly because we know we’re all mystically a part of the same family anyway.
6. Sometimes, communing with you is hard.
We love being part of a Church that affirms we all share the same faith when we approach the cup. Our friends from open communion traditions often suggest that because we’re from a closed communion tradition, we’re not spiritually challenged to see ourselves at the same table as people who are different from us. In reality, we constantly face this challenge because we know that we have to share the same cup with many of you who are capable of making very biting remarks about LGBT people. We like to remind ourselves that we’re not perfect, and though we might sometimes regard you as the thorn in our side, the feeling is likely mutual. And we come to communion anyway, and we hope you will come too, because we long for each and every person we have ever met to be united to Christ.
7. We aren’t trying to have our cake and eat it too.
We’d like to devote a whole post to this subject a bit later, but we thought it made sense to address the issue here. It is no mystery to us that most people who know us as an LGBT couple presume that we are sexually active. We are equally aware that those people who know us as celibate have trouble with the idea that we live out our vocation as a couple. So we frequently get the questions, “Are you trying to have it both ways? Are you trying to pull the wool over our eyes? How can you be celibate and legitimately a couple? How can you be a couple and legitimately celibate?” Though we can see how it might be easy to perceive our situation as doublespeak of the worst sort, we truly believe that we are called to this unusual vocation. We try, sometimes more successfully than others, to focus all of our energies on serving Christ and His Church. We remember that Christ said where two or three are gathered, there He is among them. And we constantly pray together that He would reveal to us how His will might be done in us and through us.
8. We have been profoundly hurt by the ex-gay movement.
The ex-gay movement is a “ministry” effort geared toward helping LGBT people become straight and thereby, capable of entering into heterosexual marriages. Within this movement, there is an emphasis on using various pop theories about what caused someone to consider themselves LGBT in order to “fix” that person. At its core, the ex-gay movement promotes the idea that LGBT people are fundamentally broken and all our relationships are suspect. Intimacy gets denounced as “emotional dependency” and any kind of gender variance is regarded as “gender identity confusion.” Any suggestion that we cannot have meaningful relationships with others because we are LGBT is profoundly alienating and separates us from the rest of humanity. It’s important for you, our church family, to understand the incredibly harmful messages that have been thrust in our face. The ex-gay movement also colors LGBT people’s experiences of celibacy. Ex-gay ideologies recommend divorcing oneself from one’s sexuality rather than entering a celibate life as a wholly integrated person. Just because we’re celibate, please don’t think that we advocate approaches that encourage LGBT people to denounce, rather than to integrate, their sexualities. Simple reminders that everyone is created in the image and likeness of God and is worthy of respect can go a long way.
9. The Church provides no resources for cultivating a celibate vocation outside the walls of a monastery, so we need your prayers and support.
If you’ve read any other posts on this blog, you’ve probably seen us referencing monastic communities. We do that because monastic communities are places where a person can find others living celibate lives. But even though these communities provide us with wonderful inspiration for many aspects of living a shared celibate life, the two of us do not live in a monastery. We are doing our best to live out a celibate vocation in the world, and the Church remains remarkably silent on these vocations. You, as our church family, know better than most about what obstacles we encounter as we try to live in the here and now out in the world. We need your help, prayers, love, and support as we navigate our journey. Think about all of the ways the Church has helped you learn what it means to live a married life, and then what would happen if you tried to pay that blessing forward in your own prayers that God would illumine our way?
10. We love you and are committed to sharing life with you.
Doing life in the Church is messy, dysfunctional, and human, as the Church is a hospital for the ailing. All of us together share in the Church’s mess just as we all share in the Church’s beauty. Towards that end, we actively choose to answer Christ’s call to be a part of His Body every day. We choose to share life, both globally and locally, with every person who is a part of that effort to be the Body of Christ. And that includes the people in our local church family with whom we may not always agree or communicate well. Despite all of our weaknesses, we want our lives to be orientated towards Christ’s grace that extends everyone a profoundly radical hospitality. As Rachel Held Evans recently reminded us at the Gay Christian Network Conference, we often become angry at God for being so generous that the scandal of the Gospel is not who it keeps out, but rather who it lets in. In that spirit, as much as we are able, we want to rely on God’s grace so that we can continue to share our lives with you…. even when it’s really, really hard.
In no way do we mean for this list to encompass everything we wish our church family knew, but we think it’s a start. Feel free to add to the discussion in the comments.
Comment Policy: Please remember that we, and all others commenting on this blog, are people. Practice kindness. Practice generosity. Practice asking questions. Practice showing love. Practice being human. If your comment is rude, it will be deleted. If you are constantly negative, argumentative, or bullish, you will not be able to comment anymore. We are the sole moderators of the combox.
Are 1-3 something that you have to deal with a lot? Like, is that the stuff that you overhear when people are chit chatting after the service? If it is, I’m surprised/shocked. Surprised bc I grew up in the Bible Belt and attended conservative churches there and can never recall anything like that happening, and shocked that you would willingly put yourselves in an abusive/traumatic situation so frequently.
We’ve dealt with 1 and 3 a bit less frequently, but number 2 is something we experience fairly often. We agree with you in that this sort of language is wildly inappropriate and even abusive. Within our specific Christian tradition, it can be difficult to find a parish at which we wouldn’t hear such comments from time to time. We certainly don’t enjoy hearing these things at coffee hour, but like we said in number 10, life in the Church is messy and even dysfunctional. The Body of Christ includes all kinds of people with different experiences, backgrounds, gifts, neuroses, and shortcomings. And we fit the bill just as much as anyone else, in all of those categories. It’s a challenge to know how to interact with people within the Body of Christ whom we perceive as difficult personalities, and we don’t always handle it perfectly. But we do still feel blessed by our church family in many ways.
Because of the way these comments were taken, we did reach out to some people in our parish, including the leadership, to gain some insight for how to best address them. We’ve definitely seen an improvement in this area, but we still believe that point 2 is an important issue to raise within the context of our church family, and is probably one to which other LGBT people in conservative churches can relate.
I personally deal with all three on a regular basis. After the Phil Robertson fallout, half of my Facebook feed was filled with people going over and over the passages about homosexuality being wrong. My own dad is convinced that I’m not really gay, but instead I’m just trying to be sinful.
We’re very sorry to hear that, Sara. You are in our prayers!
I’m so blessed to not only enjoy this blog, but to count you both as dear Christian friends from whom I have so much to learn. I love these points. I come from a holiness tradition church where there is an ‘honest’ attempt being made to being more inclusive but the sticking points around scriptural teaching still remain strong. In recent weeks as I reflect on this cognitive-dissonance within the church, I’m starting to be more convinced that change will happens as God’s spirit allows us and the church to understand that He gives us permission to change. I will share these points with folk within my own faith community and they will also provide a great resource for me as I consider preparing a paper on Holiness and Human Sexuality to present at a conference later this year.
Thanks for reading, Colin! We would be very interested in hearing what you would have to say in a paper on human sexuality. Blessings to you.
Thank you very much for this blog. As someone who is returning to a pastoral setting I found it very helpful. I certainly struggle with balancing everything that the Bible teaches about sin, grace and love, but if I boil down the Scripture message, my job description here on earth is to love. I don’t find wagging my finger in someone’s face is particularly effective, but as long as I love there is always a continued conversation and an opportunity to find the love of Christ, regardless of what we are struggling with. May God bless both of you as you continue on the journey of life.
Thanks for reading. We are glad you have found this helpful. We agree that regardless of what a particular denomination/church’s teaching on same-sex sexual activity is, loving approaches to pastoral care are more effective than finger-wagging. Thank you so much for your comment, and feel free to let us know if there are other questions it would be helpful to answer on the topic of relating to one’s church family as an LGBT person.
Sarah and Lindsey, would you allow me to use your blog at some point in the future at a pastor ministerial to initiate discussion? I think it would be eye opening for some of my colleagues.
Steve, we finally figured out how to reply to you directly. See the comment below. Yes, you can use our blog as a tool for initiating pastoral ministry discussions.
Steve, for some reason, it will not let me reply to your comment directly. Hope you can see this. Yes, absolutely. Feel free to use any of our content for pastoral ministry purposes, but please let others know where you found it so they can also come and participate in the discussion. Blessings. -Sarah
Thank you both for your honesty. It is very special to me to hear these things.
And thank you for reading! We hope to see you here again.
I am torn over #9 because I do believe the Church provides resources for cultivating the celibate vocation outside of the monastery. Could there be more? Certainly. I understand what you are getting at yet I also believe there are resources out there but I haven’t explored them as much. Some theologians argue that if you die a single lay person, then you missed your calling, which I believe is a completely false position. To think that I, as a single person who has dedicated the majority of my life to ministry and following Christ… that if I die a single lay person without ever getting married, or joining a religious order, or becoming a single consecrated …. that somehow I missed my vocation… I find it very demeaning and judgmental. When I’ve discussed this with some of my theologian friends, they have pointed me towards the writings of Catherine Doherty and said she talks a lot about single life and celibacy as a vocation. I have yet to read her work at any length though. That being said, there are numerous writings that speak about living a celibate life or life of continence for the sake of the Kingdom, pointing towards what we are meant to share in the life to come. More exploration on how this is to be lived out in the here and now is certainly needed. It is an interesting topic.
I myself have a lot of questions and thank you for your openness to answering them. I work as a youth minister and encounter a lot of youth who are discovering their sexuality and have many questions on the topic and a few of whom are questioning whether they themselves are LGBTQ. I focus a lot on discussing sexuality as a gift, how we are made in the image and likeness of God, etc. When I do Q&A sessions in classes, a lot of youth bring up, “Why does the Church hate people who are homosexual?” It hurts me to hear them phrase it that way, but that’s the impression they receive from the media and society. That the Church hates gay people. In response I usually read the section on homosexuality from the Youcat (Catechism of the Catholic Church for Youth) and then expand upon it. It gives the youth something to mull over but I feel as though they are not satisfied.
Question: what do you believe is the best approach to teaching the Church’s views on homosexuality while also being pastoral and balanced, particularly when dealing with youth who are exploring and coming to terms with their own sexuality?
Hi Angela,
Thanks for your thoughts here. Please remind us if we forget to respond to any of your points.
We agree that there are some additional resources about living a celibate life in the world in some Christian traditions. The Roman Catholic Church, for instance, has generally acknowledged great diversity found in the celibate life. Much of the writings to shape friars can be applied reasonably directly to the experience of a celibate person living in the world. If a person is a Latin rite Catholic, than that individual also has at least 1 model for how a celibate life might be lived in the person of the parish priest. However, it’s also very difficult (but not impossible) to find people talking about thriving in a celibate life outside of the Roman Catholic tradition. If someone is trying to find resources about celibacy authored from a Protestant perspective, then they might be left looking for a very long time.
Regarding the experience of youth pastors, our first point touches on that many people hear the “official” line of Church teaching quite early and often. We’d venture a guess that a lot of the youth who ask, “Why does the Church hate homosexuals?” have heard the official line. Perhaps a better approach might be to ask the students why they think the Church hates homosexuals, what messages your particular parish send to the LGBT community, how the Church shows love, and what concrete actions your students could take to show love to a “friend” who is asking tough questions about sexual and gender identity.
In terms of resources, we’d recommend having a look at Wendy Gritter’s Generous Spaciousness approach. You can find a slightly academic discussion of this approach at: http://www.newdirection.ca/blog/sexual-ethics-generous-spaciousness-part-1/ and there is a book coming out in May that discusses this approach more fully: http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/generous-spaciousness/349140 Briefly, this approach involves instilling hopeful stories that God wants to help all people navigate tough questions around sexuality and gender. We think it’s especially important to tell youth asking questions about gender and sexuality that it’s a GOOD thing to ask these questions, it’s an important thing to ask these questions, and that God wants to help them discern answers that enable them to live their life in Christ.
When it comes to Church teachings, consider walking students through how people plan their weddings within the Church and how people formally enter religious life. What kinds of prayers resonate with the students and why? Try to start a positive view of the Church teachings. Even on the topic of the Roman Catholic Catechism, most catechists will emphasize that homosexual actions are “intrinsically disordered” (para 2357) rather than homosexuals are “called to chastity” (para 2359). For a lot of young people, learning that chastity “means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being” (para 2337) can be a much more fruitful pathway. But we’re totally on board with using a youth-centric catechism 🙂
Thanks for reading!
Lindsey and Sarah
Hi friends. Thank you for sharing your story. I’m enjoying learning more about the two of you, and the thoughtful choices that you’re making. Your focus on intentional hospitality and abundant grace is really lovely. I’m sorry to hear about your struggles at your church, because I know in other Christian traditions there are certainly churches (like the one I attend) where you would find a warmer welcome. However, it is only by real people showing up with love and forging relationships, that your tradition will change. I admire your courage and conviction to keep showing up. Hopefully you are making things better for the next LGBT person or couple who come through the door. I’m surprised by the intensity of #7 on your list. I suspect rather a lot of the response you get reflects an anti-LGBT bias. The many straight couples who are celibate for reasons of distance or disability or incarceration or even (gasp) choice receive fewer questions about the legitimacy of their relationships.
Thank you for your comment Amber. We absolutely agree with you that it takes real people showing up with love to forge relationships that can change the tenor of these conversations.
Regarding #7, unfortunately, we get this sort of comment all of the time (from both more conservative AND more liberal folks). Many people can’t seem to fathom a definition of celibacy that permits people to have relationships. (That’s actually one of the reasons why we took some time here to define celibacy: http://aqueercalling.wordpress.com/2014/01/18/defining-celibacy/)
It really is very hypocritical that people have fewer questions for heterosexual couples who are celibate for whatever reason. Indeed, it is remarkably hypocritical that people tend to have very few questions for heterosexual couples generally.
Thanks for reading!
I wasn’t going to reply, because you made it quite clear in 8&9 that somebody with my beliefs about human sexuality is not welcome on this blog. However, I do have a suggestion about #7.
I suggest that perhaps #7 occurs precisely for the same reason that LGBT rights are suddenly seen as important: because of the heterosexual sexual revolution, which erased the concepts of celibacy and chastity from American culture. Absent those concepts, the idea of a couple being together without sexual contact is incredibly hard to imagine. I know in my own heterosexuality, it wasn’t until I rediscovered what the Church had been trying to teach me all along about celibacy and chastity, that I was ready to commit enough to get married, and I shudder for young heterosexuals and homosexuals today whose first experience with somebody to date is often “hooking up”.
The sexual revolution nearly ruined my life, and is the reason my wife and I are borderline fertile and only have one child today, when many people our age who are open to life have four or more. I am certain that has colored my view on both heterosexuality and homosexuality, for the worse.
Theodore, we’re a bit confused by your suggestion that #’s 8 and 9 on our list make it clear that someone with your beliefs about human sexuality would not be welcome here. All people who are willing to engage in civil dialogue are welcome here. We don’t censor people who disagree with us if that disagreement is respectful and in accordance with the guidelines we’ve set in our comment policy. You are welcome to comment here just as much as any one else so long as your comments are respectful.
We can understand why many people would have a hard time imagining the reality of a celibate couple. We’re very interested in what our Christian tradition has to teach us about celibacy and marriage. It’s from within our tradition that we do our explorations of celibacy as a vocation. The fact that many people have never considered celibate partnership a possibility for a Christian way of life doesn’t mean that it can’t be, or that it is a new idea somehow linked to the sexual revolution.
#8 clearly labels any thought of a hetero normative species to be abusive, and thus against the concept of what you are trying to do. #9 does the same for the traditional monastic vocation.
It sexual behavior outside of procreative marriage that is the new, post sexual revolution vocation, and I applaud you for resisting it.
Theodore, you’ve misunderstood #’s 8 and 9.
#8 refers to ministries that exist for the purpose of attempting to turn gay people straight. These ministries are often abusive, and we have experienced those abuses personally. This point does not label the perspective of anyone who believes gay people can become straight as abusive. Sarah wrote a post not long ago about Sarah’s mother, who holds such a belief. Sarah’s mother is not at all the same as most of the people we encountered in ex-gay ministries. She is a kind, loving person who holds a belief that is contrary to one of our beliefs.
And we have no idea why you would conceive of #9 as labeling traditional monasticism as abusive or against the concept of what we’re trying to do. We have a great respect for traditional monasticism, and both of us considered becoming monastics at one point. We both determined over time that we are not called to traditional monasticism, but we do draw much of our own spiritual life from monasticism. The point of #9 is that in our Christian tradition, there is no support for celibates living in the world. It is generally assumed that people living celibate vocations are monastics. This is one reason we hope that other members of our Christian tradition will find ways to be supportive not only of us, but of all non-monastic celibates: this is an area in which spiritual direction is very much lacking at present.
Wow, thank you so much…I appreciate all you said and your faith and perseverance. It calls me to live and love better!
Hi TJ! You’re welcome! We’re glad we could encourage you on your journey. Thanks for reading!
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Good job on this post! I believe I’d like to share it…pointing people back here for more info and help on their journeys. I’m going to check back to make sure that’s okay…but your response to Steve tells me you are good with sharing. 🙂
Hi Betsy! Thanks for the comment. Please feel free to share any post we write through whatever media you deem most appropriate.
I it possible to email you directly?
While it’s a bit cumbersome, we will send you an email to your supplied email address. Thanks for asking!Thanks to your comment here, A Queer Calling now proudly boasts a Contact Us page: http://aqueercalling.wordpress.com/contact-us/
Lindsey and Sarah,
Thanks tremendously for your honesty and courage. This is a really hard place to be in, publicly, and even though my personal experience has been different I rejoice in my heart everytime that I see people living their LGBTQ-Christian identities in new and beautiful ways. I know that sometimes there are people who want to limit the work of the Spirit to something that fits within their own paradigm but He blows where He will, and nobody knows how much beautiful variation that will bring to the Church until we see it. Blessings and love,
Melinda Selmys
Thank you so much for your kind comment, Melinda. It’s true that so many LGBT Christians are left trying to discern their vocations with the Holy Spirit alone as guide. We pray for wisdom in Church communities for guiding LGBT Christians toward abundant life in Christ. We have also read much of your writing on your own life experiences, and are inspired by your story and work. Blessings,
Sarah and Lindsey
This is so exciting! Thank you for starting this blog and sharing your experiences. There is such a depth to be found in orthodox, queer spirituality and it’s really encouraging seeing it being explored (I’m a gay not-quite-catholic too and it’s always wonderful to find people who just get it, without everything having to be explained and qualified). Will be keeping you in my prayers and following the blog, of course!
God bless,
Florence (Biscuitnapper)
Hi Florence. We’re glad you found our blog. We look forward to hearing more about your experience too, if you’re interested in sharing as you read!
One of the reasons I am following your blog is that I have spent well over 30 years trying to navigate Church ideas of vocation. You are absolutely correct. There is little or no support for single people (and other celibates) who wish to take on the challenges of that vocation, if they are outside the monastic or “traditional” consecrated livestyles (priest, brother, nun, sister, daughter). I am glad to see someone who wants to engage the Church and the church on those issues for celibates. I think you are having a much wider effect than you know with your blog.
We’re so glad you’re here. We absolutely want to support people trying to live out various celibate vocations. In no way do we think our way of life is the ONLY way to live fully within a celibate vocation, and we would certainly exercise a great deal of caution before encouraging anyone to follow in our footsteps. Thanks for chiming in with your perspective! It’s so great when celibate people have opportunities to talk about what their celibate vocation looks like.
Someone sent me a link to your page in response to a blog I posted a couple of weeks ago. I’m so glad I found your page. http://stonetableschool.blogspot.com/2014/01/race-sexuality-evangelical-androgyny.html
Hi Robbie. Thanks for stopping by! We will take a look at your blog as well. We are glad you are here, and we hope to see you again.
I’m confused. Why don’t you go to a church that excepts you for who you are and tells you God loves you if you still have sex?
Hi Kay. We get this question quite often. Next week, we will be releasing a post that addresses the question, “What if you just went to an Open and Affirming church?” We think that post might answer your question. Stay tuned! Also, we would like to clarify that our reasons for being celibate have nothing to do with the idea that God would not love us if we were sexually active.
Just a quick note to say what a very, very gracious posture your lives and writing reflect. As a person who has been regularly wounded by church actions and accusations (not mine; but I lead a faith-based org), I’ve sadly come to expect another lashing with every attempt at kindly encouraging another perspective – and sometimes I am not successful at managing my brokenness. Your post reads with such incredible grace – I would do well to spend more time with your thoughts. I am simply mesmerized by the beauty of your hearts. Thank you.
We appreciate your kind words here. There’s an old adage that goes “Hurt people hurt people.” It’s all too easy to respond from our pain and past hurts. We struggle to remember that all things have been reconciled to God through Christ’s work on the cross, but sometimes it’s really hard to be charitable. We both have experience navigating these difficult waters in many different audiences, and somehow God manages to show us how we can be gracious even when we really don’t want to be. We hope you’ll continue reading Donna and sharing your heart with us!
I got here after reading Maria reply to your reply. I would not post in WIT because my posts are always deleted after a few hours.
Well, I would like to address number 3:
“We’re not damaged; we’re human. ”
We all human beings are damaged. Thats why we need Christ.
A certain way of being damaged leads to given vulnerabilities. Since the very genes that makes us vulerable to diabetes or hypertension or anytype ot diseases. However, we know that the source is original sin.
I would like to say that we can learn from other people vulerabilities: how they got there, and what have they done to overcome them. This could ALSO be applied to any type of ex-gay ideology statements,
For instance, CONSIDERING another people experienices: if you had hatred towards your mother/father in your childhod, could that be the source of some sort of gender issue in yourself? (Yes/No, because) Then, you are not hurt, you are learning. We know depression is liked to any kind of sin; alcoholism/drug abuse are derived from wanting to escape from reality, and this desire can be the result of lonliness, family issues, etc.etc. So, it is about learning. And if someone tells you that some girl is ex-gay, and thus you could become ex-gay, you can just reply that youll learn about her story and see if something applies to you,
Ir is true that the Catholic Chuch does not have large and importante celibacy groups. This is due to the fact that this is something new. I am not going to analyze if this is something good or not, at what level, “if”, “when” “how”, I leave that to God. But I can elaborate on the reason behing its being something new: Men were to find a woman, and try to earn her love and get married. Men should not be single (yo know, that is way God created Eve), unless they are priests or monks. And women could be released from the responsibility of getting married if no man would try to marry them. There are no codes for being single and celibate. That is just the way it is. And if a man would want to have sex with a girl, he would just have to get married first – so he would have to understand that sex is not a game for fun, but rather a big deal. This just made celibacy a piece of cake. And instead of seeing movies and hearing songs and reading on the web things telling you to have sex, you would be hearing how you should be cautios, how men are evil and want to use women, so women should take care of themselves… and how women are evil and want to secude men, haha.
Well that is why, I wont think what is better, but thats how things were/are handled… So men/women would not create celibacy groups unless they were monks, nuns. Now, perhaps it is high time some large scale Catholic organizations devoted to celibacy were created… or perhaps not, and it should be done individually as always. At least there are groups for sex-addicts, that is a begining.
Thanks for your comment. Number 3 on our list was written with the intention of articulating, “Being LGBT doesn’t mean we’re damaged, at least not more than any other human being.” We agree that there’s a need for more spaces devoted to celibacy for lay people, not just in one but in all Christian traditions.